Author Topic: Gene Hackman?  (Read 3847 times)

Offline Mac of BIOnighT

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Re: Gene Hackman?
« Reply #45 on: January 17, 2009, 05:57:10 PM »
Fantastic, it's been a while since I had a discussion on this subject - let's cut each other's throat and no remorse afterwards!   ;) :P

Boring. Privileged. Most people are more interested in a nice cup of tea or the falseness of the holodeck.
The holodeck is only used on starships, to make up for the prolonged absence of real life situations outside the ship. As soon as they have the chance, they do live real experiences - actually they can't wait. And if the world was now a better place, a place where we do not have to struggle to survive, where diseases kill us, hunger kills, and the main purpose of human beings is waging war against each other, we could probably appreciate a good cup of tea. Which, by the way, they do not give a damn about when they find themselves in situations where more important events are taking place. Obviously, in the peace and calm of a looong voyage in a starship what should you do? What do you yourself do when you're on vacation with nothing special to do?

 
People like Kirk, Scotty, McCoy, would chafe in the next generation.
I see the next generation as a much needed evolution of the previous one, just like humanity should evolve...

And it was so bland.
Well, not quite...

Rarely were people shown to be less than perfect, to have quirks, to sometimes be silly or grumpy.
Now, are you sure we're talking about the same show?

A good day for Riker was blowing his trumpet, and character development was growing a beard.
And facing the fact that he really doesn't want his own ship to command, and doesn't know why, and that in spite of his many women he has no special one to the point that he falls in love with a creation of the holodeck, etc...

Even Q, who was the most outrageous character on the show, rarely went farther than making a mariachi band appear on the bridge.
He was supposed to be fun (and fun he was), not to be the devil...

Dwight Schultz, I forget his character's name, stood out precisely because of his quirks. And what happened to him? Sent to counseling.
Actually, he was sent to counseling because of his incapacity to relate to other peopèle, his deep unhappiness, his addiction to the holodeck, not because of his peculiarities. Individuality is totally OK, they have a Klingon (a Klingon, for crying out loud) on board....

The Federation was one heck of a boring place to be.
Or a civilized one, with lots of flaws, but constantly striving to improve.

Check Babylon 5 for a sci-fi portrayal of people who are believeable, rounded, with foibles, quirks, and sometimes mistake prone, characters who try and often succeed but sometimes fail, who learn and grow.
Like, for example, Troy when she lost her empathy? Or Data when he created and lost a daughter? Or Worf when he discovered he had a child?

 
You can take Picard from season 1 and he is no different from season 6. Where was any growth or development?
Except for accepting the fact that he could be human in front of the crew, and getting over his problem with children, and learning that the federation is far from perfect, and reestablishing the ties with his family, and overcoming the nightmare of having been assimilated by the Borg, and all the other thousand things that make the character grow slowly and realistically instead of using melodramatic plot twists?
And by the way, I'm very curious: could you please tell me about the character development Kirk and his friends underwent in the course of the various seasons?

The point is, next generation was very delicate and polite, too much for some, probably, OK for others...
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Offline BMJ2K (Barry)

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Re: Gene Hackman?
« Reply #46 on: January 17, 2009, 06:09:45 PM »
This show can be debated back and forth, which I frankly lack the passion for. I do agree that it is a good and entertaing show. The only thing I'll still argue about is the characters' growth, or lack thereof. Most of what you point out, like Data's daughter, Troi's losing empathy, or or Worf's child, really only affected the character in one or two particular stories. None of them shaped the character in any noticable way later on. For the most part, uniforms aside, put a season three story next to a season six story and there are few differences.

You are so good at discussing this and have such knowledge and passion that I wish we could discuss Babylon 5 this way, a show where I have as much passion as you do for Trek. I'd love to discuss Garibaldi's character arc, for example, or the fall of Londo Molari, or the ascension of G'Kar, or the temptation of Captain Sheridan, or teh corruption of the Earth Alliance, and on and on and on.

Offline Mac of BIOnighT

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Re: Gene Hackman?
« Reply #47 on: January 17, 2009, 06:45:09 PM »
Unfortunately, Babylon 5 was only on for a few episodes in a less than favorable time of Sundays and was cancelled shortly after it first aired :(
Nothing works on the Italian TV, unless is totally moronic or it falls under the influence of a once-in-a-lifetime celestial aura that makes it successful even if it is good...  :'( :'( :'(

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Offline Matt Cowan

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Re: Gene Hackman?
« Reply #48 on: January 17, 2009, 10:02:07 PM »
I have to admit that I always really enjoyed The Next Generation.  I liked Worf a lot but grew tired of them having him get beat up every other episode by the evil force that was invading the ship.  I never saw Babylon5 or Battlestar Galactica but a friend of mine tonight was talking about how good a show it is.  It's one of his favorites and I think he has been buying it on DVD, so I'll have to borrow it from him at some point. :)

Offline oldtimefan

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Re: Gene Hackman?
« Reply #49 on: January 18, 2009, 09:53:30 AM »
I've always liked Star Trek tng because of the human development aspect of the show. Sure you don't see much change in the main characters, because if you think about it, I doubt if any of us change dramatically over time. Maybe if something happened in our life's that changed our thinking towards people/situations, you would see a change.

Offline Mac of BIOnighT

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Re: Gene Hackman?
« Reply #50 on: January 18, 2009, 09:58:59 AM »
if you think about it, I doubt if any of us change dramatically over time.
My point exactly  :)  Change is a slow process, unless - as you say - something truly big happens.
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Offline BMJ2K (Barry)

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Re: Gene Hackman?
« Reply #51 on: January 18, 2009, 09:10:27 PM »
Bigger than Picard being turned into a Borg and being responsible for the deaths of thousands? Other than one episode where he took a trip home to France, he was A-OK fine.

Offline Mac of BIOnighT

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Re: Gene Hackman?
« Reply #52 on: January 18, 2009, 09:31:03 PM »
I would say "touché" but I haven't watched the whole series for quite a while now, so I'm not entirely sure...   :-\
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